Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@AtheistsPlus It breaks my heart to see #atheists literally falling in step w/ the kinds of dogma they claim to abhor & reject. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:17

@Fisheswithfeet, it's not reinventing anything. It's expanding a train of thought about social justice. It's only divisive if you disagree. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:17

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus That's fine, #atheism & #humanism, though often both adopted by non-believers are totally different things. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:19

@AtheistsPlus Instead this just adds more points of failure by needlessly complicating it. It's a bad idea, it's going to backfire. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:20

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@AtheistsPlus Ur fucking the word #atheism in the ass with this "plus" shit. If you want to be a #humanist, be a humanist, it's not #atheism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus By it's very definition #atheism does not make any positive claims. I'm afraid you don't understand how atheism works. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:26

@AtheistsPlus What #atheism is, what the word means & the beauty and simplicity of it. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@Fisheswithfeet, you're right by definition, atheism does not make positive claims. But some of us want to expand the definition now. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@AtheistsPlus That's a horrible, horrible, horrible idea! Leave it alone, you're going to compromise the integrity of the foundations. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:30

@AtheistsPlus Greta wants to turn the #atheist movement into an extension of feminism, just as dangerous & just a vacuous. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:31

@Fisheswithfeet, and Greta has that right, for some of us agree with the tenants of feminism, which also has diversities of thought. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@Fisheswithfeet, I guess the point here is that there world is not black and white. It's lots of grey. We wrestle with it all the time. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:33

@AtheistsPlus Again, another "ism" that isn't #atheism. There is already a feminist movement, a very successful & powerful one. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah, but there are atheists who support feminism, which says we want a world without god, where women are equal to men. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@AtheistsPlus Again, my GF & life partner is a very outspoken & active #feminist. I support their cause 100% but it's unrelated to #atheism. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:38

@AtheistsPlus #Atheism - no gods. #Humanist - people first. Feminist - women's rights. See how these things are not like the others? fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:39

@Fisheswithfeet, it's unrelated because that's how you define it. Fine. But that's not the way we all define it. I don't want 2 be limited. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@AtheistsPlus You can't just magically change the meaning of words & definitions. That's essentially apologetics & we don't like apologetics fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@AtheistsPlus This is an indefensible position. I am positive this will do more harm than good, especially w/ Greta at the helm. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@AtheistsPlus She has already caused inordinate amounts of infighting & strife in the #atheist community. She adds very little value. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:44

@Fisheswithfeet, no it's not magical. It's a struggle over meaning. It's a process. It's a train of thought. Not sure how you stop it. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:44

@AtheistsPlus It's an unneeded, unnecessary distraction that has nothing to do w/ the actual goals of the #atheist movement. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:46

@Fisheswithfeet, it sounds like it's distracting you. I'm not in the least distracted. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:47

@AtheistsPlus I work w/ hundreds of #atheists, I know thousands more online. This is going to cause a considerable amount of damage. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:49

@AtheistsPlus Mark my words. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:49

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah you're right, because some people are intent on having their way. There's only one absolute way to be an atheist. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:51

@AtheistsPlus You sound like the #theist I so often debate... It's really, really sad. We'll have to agree to disagree. But mark my words -- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:55

@AtheistsPlus if this catches on, it will cause a massive schism in the community & it will cause distraction. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:56

@AtheistsPlus Which means far less energy will be directed where it should be, on drawing attention to the fact the emperor has no clothes. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:56

@Fisheswithfeet, nope, keep pouring your energy into atheism. You never have to mention social justice at all. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:58

@Fisheswithfeet, at atheist rally you talk about atheism. At the social justice rally you talk about social justice. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:58

@AtheistsPlus Thats the idea & we're already doing those things & they are already OFTEN intertwined! No need 2 add another point of failure fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:00

@AtheistsPlus It's not me I'm concerned about here. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:03

@AtheistsPlus I'm already getting distracted... I should not be focused on the things I am focusing on in this conversation in particular. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:05

@AtheistsPlus The bottom line is this is a bad idea, I can say that & back it up w/ objective evidence. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:06

@Fisheswithfeet, I set up a Google Hangouts for 30 minutes. You anyone else can join me. t.co/UaSNSNVz atheistsplus replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:06

@AtheistsPlus I haven't used it before, but I might give it a try. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:06

@Fisheswithfeet, it's simple. Download Google Plus app. Sign into your G account. Use the link I posted to meet me there. Thanks atheistsplus replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:08

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus By it's very definition #atheism does not make any positive claims. I'm afraid you don't understand how atheism works. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:26

@Fisheswithfeet, you're right by definition, atheism does not make positive claims. But some of us want to expand the definition now. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@AtheistsPlus Greta wants to turn the #atheist movement into an extension of feminism, just as dangerous & just a vacuous. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:31

@Fisheswithfeet, and Greta has that right, for some of us agree with the tenants of feminism, which also has diversities of thought. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@AtheistsPlus Again, another "ism" that isn't #atheism. There is already a feminist movement, a very successful & powerful one. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah, but there are atheists who support feminism, which says we want a world without god, where women are equal to men. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@AtheistsPlus Again, my GF & life partner is a very outspoken & active #feminist. I support their cause 100% but it's unrelated to #atheism. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:38

@Fisheswithfeet, it's unrelated because that's how you define it. Fine. But that's not the way we all define it. I don't want 2 be limited. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@AtheistsPlus You can't just magically change the meaning of words & definitions. That's essentially apologetics & we don't like apologetics fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@Fisheswithfeet, no it's not magical. It's a struggle over meaning. It's a process. It's a train of thought. Not sure how you stop it. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:44

@AtheistsPlus It's an unneeded, unnecessary distraction that has nothing to do w/ the actual goals of the #atheist movement. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:46

@Fisheswithfeet, it sounds like it's distracting you. I'm not in the least distracted. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:47

@AtheistsPlus I work w/ hundreds of #atheists, I know thousands more online. This is going to cause a considerable amount of damage. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:49

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah you're right, because some people are intent on having their way. There's only one absolute way to be an atheist. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:51

@AtheistsPlus Which means far less energy will be directed where it should be, on drawing attention to the fact the emperor has no clothes. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:56

@Fisheswithfeet, at atheist rally you talk about atheism. At the social justice rally you talk about social justice. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:58

@AtheistsPlus Thats the idea & we're already doing those things & they are already OFTEN intertwined! No need 2 add another point of failure fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:00

@Fisheswithfeet, look do you have Google Hangouts setup? We're wearing out Twitter. atheistsplus replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:02

@Fisheswithfeet, I gotta get back to work in about 30 minutes. But I'm willing to carry this on, on Google Hangouts. atheistsplus replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:03

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus By it's very definition #atheism does not make any positive claims. I'm afraid you don't understand how atheism works. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:26

@Fisheswithfeet, you're right by definition, atheism does not make positive claims. But some of us want to expand the definition now. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@AtheistsPlus Greta wants to turn the #atheist movement into an extension of feminism, just as dangerous & just a vacuous. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:31

@Fisheswithfeet, and Greta has that right, for some of us agree with the tenants of feminism, which also has diversities of thought. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@AtheistsPlus Again, another "ism" that isn't #atheism. There is already a feminist movement, a very successful & powerful one. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah, but there are atheists who support feminism, which says we want a world without god, where women are equal to men. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@AtheistsPlus Again, my GF & life partner is a very outspoken & active #feminist. I support their cause 100% but it's unrelated to #atheism. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:38

@Fisheswithfeet, it's unrelated because that's how you define it. Fine. But that's not the way we all define it. I don't want 2 be limited. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@AtheistsPlus You can't just magically change the meaning of words & definitions. That's essentially apologetics & we don't like apologetics fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@Fisheswithfeet, no it's not magical. It's a struggle over meaning. It's a process. It's a train of thought. Not sure how you stop it. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:44

@AtheistsPlus It's an unneeded, unnecessary distraction that has nothing to do w/ the actual goals of the #atheist movement. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:46

@Fisheswithfeet, it sounds like it's distracting you. I'm not in the least distracted. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:47

@AtheistsPlus I work w/ hundreds of #atheists, I know thousands more online. This is going to cause a considerable amount of damage. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:49

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah you're right, because some people are intent on having their way. There's only one absolute way to be an atheist. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:51

@AtheistsPlus You sound like the #theist I so often debate... It's really, really sad. We'll have to agree to disagree. But mark my words -- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:55

@Fisheswithfeet, how do I sound like a theist? I'm telling you how to think or what to believe. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:56

@AtheistsPlus You defining terms to fit your needs, defending indefensible positions w/ rhetoric & hyperbole & favoring ambiguity. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:58

@AtheistsPlus Those are traits I often see in people who subscribe to dogmatic systems of belief that are obviously devoid of value. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:59

@Fisheswithfeet, how is dogmatic? I'm not seeking to change you. I could say it's dogmatic if I agree with you! atheistsplus replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:00

@Fisheswithfeet, you're making atheism dogmatic. You're only defining it one way. So fine, do that, if that works for you. atheistsplus replied on Aug 25, 2012 00:01

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus By it's very definition #atheism does not make any positive claims. I'm afraid you don't understand how atheism works. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:26

@Fisheswithfeet, you're right by definition, atheism does not make positive claims. But some of us want to expand the definition now. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@AtheistsPlus Greta wants to turn the #atheist movement into an extension of feminism, just as dangerous & just a vacuous. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:31

@Fisheswithfeet, and Greta has that right, for some of us agree with the tenants of feminism, which also has diversities of thought. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@AtheistsPlus Again, another "ism" that isn't #atheism. There is already a feminist movement, a very successful & powerful one. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah, but there are atheists who support feminism, which says we want a world without god, where women are equal to men. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@AtheistsPlus Again, my GF & life partner is a very outspoken & active #feminist. I support their cause 100% but it's unrelated to #atheism. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:38

@Fisheswithfeet, it's unrelated because that's how you define it. Fine. But that's not the way we all define it. I don't want 2 be limited. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@AtheistsPlus You can't just magically change the meaning of words & definitions. That's essentially apologetics & we don't like apologetics fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@Fisheswithfeet, no it's not magical. It's a struggle over meaning. It's a process. It's a train of thought. Not sure how you stop it. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:44

@AtheistsPlus It's an unneeded, unnecessary distraction that has nothing to do w/ the actual goals of the #atheist movement. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:46

@Fisheswithfeet, it sounds like it's distracting you. I'm not in the least distracted. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:47

@AtheistsPlus I work w/ hundreds of #atheists, I know thousands more online. This is going to cause a considerable amount of damage. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:49

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah you're right, because some people are intent on having their way. There's only one absolute way to be an atheist. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:51

@AtheistsPlus You sound like the #theist I so often debate... It's really, really sad. We'll have to agree to disagree. But mark my words -- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:55

@Fisheswithfeet, how do I sound like a theist? I'm telling you how to think or what to believe. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:56

@AtheistsPlus You defining terms to fit your needs, defending indefensible positions w/ rhetoric & hyperbole & favoring ambiguity. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:58

@Fisheswithfeet, no, I'm extending a definition of the term. You don't like that. I understand. But you don't get to define me. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:59

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus By it's very definition #atheism does not make any positive claims. I'm afraid you don't understand how atheism works. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:26

@Fisheswithfeet, you're right by definition, atheism does not make positive claims. But some of us want to expand the definition now. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@AtheistsPlus Greta wants to turn the #atheist movement into an extension of feminism, just as dangerous & just a vacuous. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:31

@Fisheswithfeet, and Greta has that right, for some of us agree with the tenants of feminism, which also has diversities of thought. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@AtheistsPlus Again, another "ism" that isn't #atheism. There is already a feminist movement, a very successful & powerful one. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah, but there are atheists who support feminism, which says we want a world without god, where women are equal to men. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@AtheistsPlus Again, my GF & life partner is a very outspoken & active #feminist. I support their cause 100% but it's unrelated to #atheism. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:38

@Fisheswithfeet, it's unrelated because that's how you define it. Fine. But that's not the way we all define it. I don't want 2 be limited. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@AtheistsPlus You can't just magically change the meaning of words & definitions. That's essentially apologetics & we don't like apologetics fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@Fisheswithfeet, no it's not magical. It's a struggle over meaning. It's a process. It's a train of thought. Not sure how you stop it. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:44

@AtheistsPlus It's an unneeded, unnecessary distraction that has nothing to do w/ the actual goals of the #atheist movement. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:46

@Fisheswithfeet, it sounds like it's distracting you. I'm not in the least distracted. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:47

@AtheistsPlus I work w/ hundreds of #atheists, I know thousands more online. This is going to cause a considerable amount of damage. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:49

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah you're right, because some people are intent on having their way. There's only one absolute way to be an atheist. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:51

@AtheistsPlus if this catches on, it will cause a massive schism in the community & it will cause distraction. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:56

@Fisheswithfeet, again it will only cause a schism for people who don't agree with it. I accept you as an atheist, without the +. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:57

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus By it's very definition #atheism does not make any positive claims. I'm afraid you don't understand how atheism works. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:26

@Fisheswithfeet, you're right by definition, atheism does not make positive claims. But some of us want to expand the definition now. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@AtheistsPlus Greta wants to turn the #atheist movement into an extension of feminism, just as dangerous & just a vacuous. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:31

@Fisheswithfeet, and Greta has that right, for some of us agree with the tenants of feminism, which also has diversities of thought. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@AtheistsPlus Again, another "ism" that isn't #atheism. There is already a feminist movement, a very successful & powerful one. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@Fisheswithfeet, yeah, but there are atheists who support feminism, which says we want a world without god, where women are equal to men. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@AtheistsPlus Again, my GF & life partner is a very outspoken & active #feminist. I support their cause 100% but it's unrelated to #atheism. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:38

@Fisheswithfeet, it's unrelated because that's how you define it. Fine. But that's not the way we all define it. I don't want 2 be limited. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@AtheistsPlus This is an indefensible position. I am positive this will do more harm than good, especially w/ Greta at the helm. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@Fisheswithfeet, how do you stop a positive train of thought. How can I want to godless world, and not want social justice also? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:45

@AtheistsPlus It already exists! MANY, MANY, #atheists are also #humanists! This causes divisions & takes away from the whole. It's BAD. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:47

@Fisheswithfeet, but I want atheism to mean something more than a negative. A wold without god—a social justice world. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:50

@Fisheswithfeet, it's only BAD because you don't agree. You're saying I don't have a right to define what I think is right. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:53

@AtheistsPlus Too bad. That's what the word #atheism means. It's the beginning of the kind of thought processes that lead to the desire for- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:51

@AtheistsPlus higher causes like humanism & feminism. It begins w/ the rejection of superstition & dogma that cripples the minds of people-- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:52

@AtheistsPlus who cannot think outside that box as long as they're under it's control. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:52

@AtheistsPlus The goal of the #atheist movement is to help free those trapped minds so they can begin to think for themselves. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:53

@Fisheswithfeet, exactly. And I've been thinking for myself for years. And thus as an atheists I want a better world without god believe. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:54

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus What #atheism is, what the word means & the beauty and simplicity of it. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@Fisheswithfeet, I see beauty in world where we strive for justice and peace. Where we live without God, and love one another truly. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:29

@AtheistsPlus I do too! Which is why I identify as a #humanist & #atheist! If you insist on reinventing the wheel, change the name. Please!! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@Fisheswithfeet, so you want the names separate so that you can fit the content in the appropriate box? Right? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@AtheistsPlus I don't want to lose ground or give people who may be gaining ground against religious oppression/ignorance distracted or -- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@AtheistsPlus confused. It also gives the "opposition" for lack of a better term, cannon fodder & more opportunities to distract from facts. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:36

@AtheistsPlus But essentially, yes, however not because I value the definition. Mine are practical concerns. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:37

@Fisheswithfeet, I understand. But I don't see how Atheists Plus will change what you do or think. It can't do that. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:39

@AtheistsPlus For at least the 6th time! It. is. an. unnecessary. unneeded. complication. and. distraction. that. will. damage the. cause. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:42

@AtheistsPlus This is a bad, bad, bad idea. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:42

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, so we should drop Atheists Plus because so you will feel better, and so the opposition won't get more confused? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@AtheistsPlus You should drop #atheismplus because it's a misnomer & it is not representative of the ACTUAL meaning/definitions & goals. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:45

@AtheistsPlus It's akin to me walking into the Vatican & saying "we're adopting Mormon & Jehovah Witness doctrine, deal w/ it". It fails. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:45

@Fisheswithfeet, but you see, atheism is not a religion. Remember? I understand it traditionally takes no positive claims. …. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:48

@AtheistsPlus Red herring. You know exactly what I meant. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:49

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus What #atheism is, what the word means & the beauty and simplicity of it. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@Fisheswithfeet, I see beauty in world where we strive for justice and peace. Where we live without God, and love one another truly. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:29

@AtheistsPlus I do too! Which is why I identify as a #humanist & #atheist! If you insist on reinventing the wheel, change the name. Please!! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@Fisheswithfeet, so you want the names separate so that you can fit the content in the appropriate box? Right? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@AtheistsPlus But essentially, yes, however not because I value the definition. Mine are practical concerns. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:37

@Fisheswithfeet, I understand. But I don't see how Atheists Plus will change what you do or think. It can't do that. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:39

@AtheistsPlus For at least the 6th time! It. is. an. unnecessary. unneeded. complication. and. distraction. that. will. damage the. cause. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:42

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, so we should drop Atheists Plus because so you will feel better, and so the opposition won't get more confused? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:43

@AtheistsPlus You should drop #atheismplus because it's a misnomer & it is not representative of the ACTUAL meaning/definitions & goals. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:45

@Fisheswithfeet, it's not a misnomer. It could become another definition. We'll see. In the believers view, atheism is a misnomer. You see? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:46

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus What #atheism is, what the word means & the beauty and simplicity of it. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@Fisheswithfeet, I see beauty in world where we strive for justice and peace. Where we live without God, and love one another truly. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:29

@AtheistsPlus I do too! Which is why I identify as a #humanist & #atheist! If you insist on reinventing the wheel, change the name. Please!! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@Fisheswithfeet, so you want the names separate so that you can fit the content in the appropriate box? Right? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@AtheistsPlus I don't want to lose ground or give people who may be gaining ground against religious oppression/ignorance distracted or -- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:35

@Fisheswithfeet, oh don't worry about people who are against atheism. We can't allow them to define us. Only we do that. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:37

@AtheistsPlus EXACTLY! Only we do that! By complicating an already complicated issue, causing infighting & distractions & detracting from -- fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@AtheistsPlus the ACTUAL problems & issues #atheism & it's narrow, specific definition & cause aims to address. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:40

@Fisheswithfeet, it's complicated for people who have delusional believes in a non-existent god. Atheism is not complicated for u or me. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:42

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO LOOK AT #ATHEISM! It's the rejection of the assertion that gods exist! IT MAKES NO POSITIVE CLAIMS! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, and when you say atheism makes not positive claims, that sounds dogmatic. I've never made that claim. Why should I? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus What #atheism is, what the word means & the beauty and simplicity of it. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

@Fisheswithfeet, I see beauty in world where we strive for justice and peace. Where we live without God, and love one another truly. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:29

@AtheistsPlus I do too! Which is why I identify as a #humanist & #atheist! If you insist on reinventing the wheel, change the name. Please!! fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:32

@Fisheswithfeet, so you want the names separate so that you can fit the content in the appropriate box? Right? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:34

@AtheistsPlus confused. It also gives the "opposition" for lack of a better term, cannon fodder & more opportunities to distract from facts. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:36

@Fisheswithfeet, the opposition is wrong on this question. Their "God" has had plenty of time to reveal himself. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:38

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus No. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? This is a needless & divisive complication that will distract from goals of humanism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:16

@Fisheswithfeet, however there are some atheists who may not be humanists or for social justice. So it doesn't apply to them. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@AtheistsPlus This whole idea is going to get bogged down in arguments & disputes like these & you'll be Freethought Blogs 2.0 fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@Fisheswithfeet, that only happens if ppl don't like the idea of Atheists Plus because they think there's only one way to look at atheism. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus Ur fucking the word #atheism in the ass with this "plus" shit. If you want to be a #humanist, be a humanist, it's not #atheism fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, hey why are you getting mad. We're just discussing the issue. Calm down. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@AtheistsPlus It's upsetting to see something I have invested a great deal in being threatened by the kinds of thoughts/idea we oppose. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:29

@Fisheswithfeet, don't feel threatened. Atheism will always be what you want it to be. It's not A-. Nothing is being taken away. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:30

@Fisheswithfeet, how does Atheists Plus change your mind about anything? Does it mean you have to change organizations or something? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:31

@AtheistsPlus That is also false, I'm afraid I see the handwriting on the wall here. This is an unneeded distraction & will do damage. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:33

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus It breaks my heart to see #atheists literally falling in step w/ the kinds of dogma they claim to abhor & reject. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:17

@Fisheswithfeet, how is it dogma? It's a train of thought, but not ordained or pushed on anyone. You add the + or leave it off. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:19

@AtheistsPlus Have you see what people who identify w/ the A+ thing are saying? It's become dogmatic & very quickly. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:21

@AtheistsPlus Just joined #atheismplus, the ignorance of the #atheist lackeys will be proven shortly. A+ or GTFO <--- @ShirleyWattson bio fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus There's a prime example. For more just like it, search "#atheismplus" & see for yourself the crap people are spewing. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:23

@Fisheswithfeet, give me an example please of the dogmatism in Atheists Plus. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:22

@AtheistsPlus I did, I quoted @ShirleyWattson's bio for a prime example & encourage you to search the hashtag for more examples of division. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:25

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, well I disagree with @ShirelyWattson's bio definition of Atheists Plus. I agree more with Jenn and Greta's analysis. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:27

Atheist Plus is not about what we should call ourselves. It's a train of thought about social justice and equality. bakari45 tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 22:48

@Bakari45 That's called Humanism, it already exists. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:11

@Fisheswithfeet, okay, no problem. Atheists Plus and Humanism are the same thing with different names. Is that okay? atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:13

@AtheistsPlus It breaks my heart to see #atheists literally falling in step w/ the kinds of dogma they claim to abhor & reject. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:17

@Fisheswithfeet, how is it dogma? It's a train of thought, but not ordained or pushed on anyone. You add the + or leave it off. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:19

@AtheistsPlus There's a prime example. For more just like it, search "#atheismplus" & see for yourself the crap people are spewing. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:23

@Fisheswithfeet, pointing out a dogmatic position to me, please. I'm talking directly to you right now. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:24

@Fisheswithfeet, it's not reinventing anything. It's expanding a train of thought about social justice. It's only divisive if you disagree. atheistsplus tweeted on Aug 24, 2012 23:17

@AtheistsPlus It's ABSOLUTELY reinventing! You've co-opted humanism & attached your own personal baggage to it. Sad, sad, sad. fisheswithfeet replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:18

@Fisheswithfeet, how is it co-opting humanism. These are not products for sell. They are ideas about how we want the world to be. atheistsplus replied on Aug 24, 2012 23:20